Cadillac Misfits

General Category => For Sale & Wanted => Topic started by: Gary on January 27, 2011, 12:44:41 AM

Title: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Gary on January 27, 2011, 12:44:41 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1950-Flxible-Custom-Coach-conversion-/190493585590?pt=Buses&hash=item2c5a4d70b6#ht_500wt_1182

Take lots of pics, Mike :rotfl:

Gary
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Denrep on January 27, 2011, 01:33:42 AM
But man that V-6 Jimmy  :doh:
A garden hose couldn't keep up with its thirst for fuel.  :ha ha:


Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: DownUnderDeville on January 27, 2011, 02:52:43 AM
A V6? Could that even move the thing? What's it out of I wonder?
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Denrep on January 27, 2011, 03:08:14 AM
Quote from: DownUnderDeville on January 27, 2011, 02:52:43 AM
A V6? Could that even move the thing? What's it out of I wonder?

Oh Ueahg, it'd move it; they were strictly a truck engine, up to 478 cubes, GMC.
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Russ on January 27, 2011, 03:10:45 AM
Misfits on the move. Bring the party to YOU  :Cold Beer:
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Carfreak on January 27, 2011, 03:18:07 AM
Peekskill's got a 'Big GMC Inline 6", think its a 503 cid.

Don't know much about him, 640 series with 185" wheelbase and almost 9' tall - he's a biggun!
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Denrep on January 27, 2011, 03:42:37 AM
That's the two-garden-hose model.  :Muttley:
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: guidematic on January 27, 2011, 05:23:44 AM
 That would be so cool. That would be a project for me if I ever won the lottery.

But at some point that bus was repowered. Originally, in 1950, Flxibles came with Buick engines, the big straight 8. But if it ran the big 478 V-6 then it would have plenty of power to move the rig. But these V-6's were also available in 305, 351and 401 inch versions. The Jimmy V-6 was released in 1960, and they were carried through at least the mid 70's.

I would repower it again with a big 500HP 8V92TA and an Allison auto. That would move that thing with extreme authority and likely get far better fuel economy than a 478 V-6 gas engine.

Mike
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Tailfin Joe on January 28, 2011, 04:48:30 PM
Where do you park a bus at a car show or cruise in ? I met a guy who did a resto on a bus from this period really nice, but he even got tickets when he parked on the street be cause it was not city or state  owned.
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: guidematic on January 28, 2011, 05:19:33 PM

You have to take that into consideration when you have one. You can't just expect to show up at a cruise with a bus and be allowed to park it. Ditto for anywhere you take it.

You also need a good sized shop to keep it and maintain it. Granted these rigs were designed to spend much of their life outside, but the elements still take their toll. And they are fairly maintenance extensive if used regularly. An oil change with a Detroit will be 30+ litres of oil, 2 oil filters and 2 fuel filters. There are perhaps 25 or more grease points plus an inspection of several dozen items to keep them in top notch condition.

The air dryer should be serviced yearly as well. A brake reline is a huge job, but if used sparingly, should last many years.

There is also the yearly transmission service which are filters and up to 15 litres of oil.

Many of these conversion buses are not maintained properly, sit outside for months on end and then just driven occasionally when the mood hits. That's a recipe for disaster. So many systems deteriorate at a rapid rate and the bus becomes pretty much unuseable when one real problem hits. That's why you see so many that are just languishing beside barns. Like this one.

Mike
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: ST Dog on January 28, 2011, 11:49:39 PM
Quote from: guidematic on January 27, 2011, 05:23:44 AM
I would repower it again with a big 500HP 8V92TA and an Allison auto. That would move that thing with extreme authority and likely get far better fuel economy than a 478 V-6 gas engine.

Not to mention the difficulty finding parts for the big GMC engines.

But one of the GMC 12s would be quite the conversation starter.
http://www.6066gmcguy.org/TwinSix.htm (http://www.6066gmcguy.org/TwinSix.htm)
(http://www.6066gmcguy.org/engines/twinsix_702_bsm.jpg)
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: guidematic on January 29, 2011, 01:45:45 AM
 That's a fascinating engine. The reciprocating parts of 2 351 V-6's. Phenominal torque and power, but fuel consumption was on par with an ocean liner. my grandfather spoke of these engines with great admiration. They were easily the most powerful engines available, and could make any diesel of the day look like a child's toy.

There is an FWD wrecker locally that has one of these engines powereing it. To hear that thing is true music.

But it was a monster to run and maintain. A tune-up took an entire day, and feeding it, even in times when fuel consumption was not really important, was a major hurt. No wonder they tacked 2 more cylinders onto the 478 to make a V-8 with nearly the power, but much better fuel consumption and lower maintenance won out.

And diesels were coming on strong. The 60's was the hay day of the big gas engines, but diesels with their better fuel consumption and longevity were the way to go in big trucks. Once they started putting turbos on diesels, the gas engines were done.

Mike
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: ST Dog on January 29, 2011, 03:22:04 AM
Quote from: guidematic on January 29, 2011, 01:45:45 AM
No wonder they tacked 2 more cylinders onto the 478 to make a V-8 with nearly the power, but much better fuel consumption and lower maintenance won out.

Check the net numbers, http://www.6066gmcguy.org/EngineData.htm
250HP @ 2400 rpm  from the V12 vs 185HP @ 2800 rpm for the V8

I'd really like to see what they could do with higher compression (spec was 7.5:1) and modern camshaft designs.
I'm sure efficiency could be improved a lot. Bore it out to match the big 6 and 8 too.

That short stroke just hampers it a lot.

Granted it could never compete with a turbo diesel.
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Denrep on January 29, 2011, 06:01:54 AM
You can't see it in the pitchur, but they had a strange distributor drive.
They used a drive which was about the diameter of an HEI unit, but flat, in the block.
Then, two separate six cylinder distributors fit into the drive unit, but each in a horizontal position. Does that explanation make sense? For some reason I'm thinking that the two distributors were Corvair based, but I'm not positive on that. They also had a jumbo balance tube between the carbs.

Good Luck
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: guidematic on January 29, 2011, 02:00:47 PM
 I always wondered why the power ratings were so low for truck engines, especially these big gas engines. I did read somewhere, and memory is a bit shadowy on this, that they were rated at 75% of their maximum duty cycle. In other words, that is what maximum power is rated continuously, but there is more in reserve if need be.

The big engines had lots of torque, and the more modern short stroke engines had benefits in less internal friction, less flame exposure to the cylinder wall and more compact dimensions. Certainly a longer stroke allows for greater torque at lower RPM, however, the benefits of a shorter stroke were seen as more desireable.

The 702 did have that bizarre distributor arrangement, and 2 carbs. It was not just replaceing 12 spark plugs and servicing 2 distributors, but setting, tuning and synchronising it all together to make it work well. I know 2 old mechanics that worked on these engines, and that is how it was put to me.

Mike
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: thebig429 on January 29, 2011, 03:30:58 PM
Quote from: Tailfin Joe on January 28, 2011, 04:48:30 PM
Where do you park a bus at a car show or cruise in ? I met a guy who did a resto on a bus from this period really nice, but he even got tickets when he parked on the street be cause it was not city or state  owned.
Plenty of room at the cruise ins & shows in my area. This shows up at alot.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3648816842_0e551b83b6_m.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikesbig429/3648816842/)
Studebaker (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikesbig429/3648816842/) by Mikes Big 429 (http://www.flickr.com/people/mikesbig429/), on Flickr
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: thebig429 on February 04, 2011, 02:04:09 AM
Quote from: ST Dog on January 28, 2011, 11:49:39 PM


But one of the GMC 12s would be quite the conversation starter.
http://www.6066gmcguy.org/TwinSix.htm (http://www.6066gmcguy.org/TwinSix.htm)
(http://www.6066gmcguy.org/engines/twinsix_702_bsm.jpg)

Just stumbled on this today.
A buddy of mine photoed it
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/5412550461_1b657732e0.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chorwedel/5412550461/)
1964 GMC Pickup (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chorwedel/5412550461/) by Chad Horwedel (http://www.flickr.com/people/chorwedel/), on Flickr
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Russ on February 04, 2011, 02:06:58 AM
very interesting.   
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: Geoff on February 04, 2011, 04:03:18 AM
I like it!  Would love to hear it run at full song.
Geoff  :yes:
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: guidematic on February 04, 2011, 05:36:03 AM

I LOVE it!

Mike
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: DownUnderDeville on February 04, 2011, 05:39:30 AM
Man, that GMC is something else....... :yeah baby: :yeah baby:
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: ST Dog on February 04, 2011, 01:35:19 PM
Quote from: Geoff on February 04, 2011, 04:03:18 AM
I like it!  Would love to hear it run at full song.

There are a few on YouTube.
Title: Re: A project for Guidematic
Post by: EXCRUISERGUY on February 04, 2011, 03:03:45 PM
Nice truck!
That thing could pull a house off its foundation!

GJ